Interview with Dr. Elizabeth Loftus on the False Memory Syndrome Foundation & The Memory Wars

I interviewed Dr. Elizabeth Loftus regarding the Memory Wars and the False Memory Syndrome Foundation back in December of 2020 just weeks before my spinal injury. Have been meaning to get the interview transcribed and here it is (finally).

PF: First off I want to thank you so much for being willing to talk to me. Also I just want to say if there’s anything I ask that you don’t have an answer for or you’d rather not answer that’s completely fine and please do set me straight if I at any point I’m off in any details.

L: What are you writing or what is your product going to be?

PF: I’m interested in the memory wars of the 80s and 90s and specifically the False Memory Syndrome Foundation which was a key part of what some have dubbed the memory wars.

L: OK.

PF: And first off, I wanted to ask, just a personal question you recently won the prestigious John Maddox award for science, just one of many awards and commendations you’ve received. What would you say, however, is your greatest achievement or the most proud moment in your professional career?

L: Well those are two different questions, I think the achievement I would answer by saying, I’ve spent a terrific professional life. I get to make scientific discoveries and also apply those discoveries to real world cases and to help people along the way. That’s my greatest achievement.

PF: So you were always interested in, was science always your calling and vocation? When did you realize that’s what you wanted to do?

L: No, it wasn’t I contemplated a bunch of other things, I was maybe going to be a high school math teacher

PF: Oh wow!

L: I always thought that’s what I thought I’d end up doing.

PF: I wanted to be an entomologist until i realized “Oh, wait, you have to touch the bugs?”

L: Oh yeah.

PF: You were one of the original members of the False Memory Syndrome Foundation scientific advisory board, what was that experience like?

L: First of all, I was working on these repressed memory cases when I got a call from Martin Orne who was one of the original members, I wasn’t. He asked me if I would join this board since I had been doing research on memory distortion and had already worked on a few cases of claims of repressed memory and was deeply interested in the issues it was just a natural thing for me to do to become a member of what became a very, very large, you know, fifty people or something, scientific and professional advisory board. That happened maybe in 1993ish I might have joined.

PF: Ok, I know you published an article about the False Memory Syndrome Foundation in Washington Post in ‘91…

L: That was an article, that was written about about a talk I gave, that was written about a talk I gave to the American Psychological Association about false memories and it was covered in the Washington Post. [She did not do an APA presentation in 1991 on memory before the WaPo interview.  She was “enthralled” by Ganaway’s presentation in 1991 (p. 84+).  She “flew back to Seattle with a sense of purpose and direction.” The WaPo interview was conducted in August and she would present at the APA in 1992.]

Tossed around ideas with her students.  Did the WaPo interview that generated a headline in August.  Presented on memory at the APA in 1992.

PF: Okay, once again thank you and please correct me on my details because I want to make sure this is as accurate as possible. And I think you answered another question I had, I was going to ask I was going to ask you if the Freyd’s contacted you, perhaps they saw that article but sounds like…. I knew Dr. Orne was your entry… [note: Dr. Martin Orne also worked on the CIA’s MK-Ultra mind control program, Loftus herself was a consultant to the CIA from 2005-2006 and is referenced in the Hoffman Report related to APA ethics issues related to Guantanamo Bay.]

L: I didn’t know them before I got involved in this issue, but I certainly knew who Martin Orne was, he was a very prominent psychiatrist who was very involved in the organization and he’s the one who ended up calling me and asking me if I would join.

PF: Ok here’s another question, do you believe that there are cases of… because this is another one of the controversies in the memory wars, speaking of war. Are you of the opinion that trauma-induced memory loss in Vietnam veterans is something that happens or is that another case of “psychological confusion?”

L: Well, there are lots of reasons why combat veterans have difficulty remembering things. Some of them have to do with the physiological…

PF: Traumatic brain injury for instance?

L: Yeah, injury, exhaustion, you know, starva- you know, hunger, fear, all kinds of things. Lack of sleep.

PF: So in a way, I guess you could say, there are cases of trauma induced memory loss, but its kind of an apples and oranges thing as compared to the FMSF cases with repressed memories.

L: Well, I mean, show me a case where they said ‘I really thought it was a lovely war until I went to therapy and then I learned that no, it was horrible. Those cases don’t look anything like the claims of repressed memories…

PF: Gotya, apples and oranges.

L: …family members who joined the False memory syndrome foundation effort

PF: Ok, now for your work, which of course you’re very proud of, have a right to be proud of, you’ve had a long and distinguished career. You’ve also however received a lot of hate mail, death threats, I know that occurred a lot in the 90s… another two-parter do you think this was primarily due to your work with the foundation and your position on false memory syndrome…

L: Oh no, it was definitely my position on the issues…

PF: Have the hate letters….

L: the skepticism that I was expressing in my speeches and in my writing. (nods)

PF: Because it’s a hot button issue. Have the hate letters and death threats subsided at least?

L: Well I testified earlier this year for a very unpopular person in a sex abuse, a sexual assault case and there was a lot of publicity about that so they, I ended up getting a new round of hate mail, but that was early at the beginning of this year. (interview recorded Dec 2020).

PF: I’m going to go out on a limb here, I’m assuming you’re talking about the Weinstein trial. Can you tell me what that ordeal was like and if there were any limits to the testimony you were able to give on the stand?

L: Yeah, I just gave very general memory testimony. I was not permitted to talk about any specific people just general memory testimony about memories and memory distortion and that’s, you know, at some point I could send you a transcript.

PF: Oh my gosh, I would love that!

L: So email me at <breaks up> and I’ll <breaks up>

PF: Oh sorry, you broke up there for a second, but yes I will email and please do. Another question, would you characterize yourself as an advocate of science for science’s sake

L: I’d say I’m a big advocate for science, as a way of…

PF: both pure and applied or do you not take favorites?

L: Well I happen to do scientific work that is both theoretical and has applications.

PF: Ok, here’s another question that I’m dying to know, do you believe there are any cases where people do repress memories that are related to sexual abuse or other types of child abuse that are later recovered either with or without the aid of a therapist.

L: I think that people can not think about something for a long time and be reminded of it. They can even not think about something, you know, awful and be reminded of it. Any memory scientist appreciates the value of a retrieval cue.

PF: Like smells.

L: Ordinary forgetting and remembering, I don’t think there is any credible scientific support for the idea of massive repression. I appreciate Richard McNally, who is a professor at Harvard a clinical psychologist and researcher who calls the repression idea folklore.

PF: Ok, and another important question here, and I’m sure you’ve gone over this many times, but just to get it on the record for my research. What methods are most likely to result in false memory implantation?

L: Suggesting things to people, guided imagination, taking them through imagination exercises when they can’t remember something, sexualized dream interpretation, hypnosis, giving people books to read that advance the theory of repression, putting them in group therapy when they don’t have any memories and they listen to lots of other people talk about abuse, exposing them to other forms of suggestive psychotherapy. These are some of the things I’ve seen in many cases I’ve been involved in.

PF: Now speaking of books, tell me about your thoughts on the book Courage to Heal?

L: Ah, I think Courage to Heal is a book that for people who genuinely were abused could be a comfort for those individuals to make them feel understood they’re not alone, other people have gone through the experience, that’s probably a big part of why the book is so popular. But when it comes to people who don’t have any memories and the book is telling them even if you don’t have memories but you’ve got the symptoms you’ve probably been abused and encourages them to develop memories and encourages and provides a list of lawyers to take their cases if they decide to sue then I think you’re entering into dangerous territory.

PF: So it’s a mixed bag…

L: Yes.

PF: And that’s another thing how much of the repressed memory therapy stuff especially as it relates to litigation and people suing their parents how much of that is well intentioned therapists and ministers and criminal investigators and how much of it, I’m going to use a very strong word, grifters and people who are purely in it for financial gain or is that something that we can’t really quantify.

L: Well, I have been very generous about my attribution of motivations, you know, and just assume that the promoters of these techniques and strategies think they’re helping people. They’re, you know, if you talk to Richard Ofshe he’s the one who said…

PF: Yeah, haha…

L: If you can turn a $2000 eating disorder patient into a $200,000…

PF: (laughing) I read that, I read that paper just the other day, that’s what got that idea in my head actually.

L: So that was Ofshe’s view back then, I don’t know how he’s feeling today. But I have been kind of kinder to the therapists in assuming that they just really had one and only one idea of what was wrong with their patient and they pursued that agenda.

PF: Now speaking of Professor Ofshe, off topic for just a second and I’ll get right back, but I am so thankful for his work exposing Scientology, he was one of the pioneers. It was very dangerous to go up against Scientology especially in the 80s at the height of their power…

L: Oh yeah, he was a big target of them…

PF: Oh yeah! They’re some scary folks. Can I ask you one more, this is another slightly off topic question but I’m just dying for your professional opinion. As a kid I was a huge fan of Daniel Keyes’ Flowers for Algernon, I loved it, and many years later I cracked open a copy of The Many Minds of Billy Milligan. I personally don’t deny the possibility of dissociative identity disorders but something didn’t sit right even before they bring in the psychiatrist who examined Sybil, Dr. Cornelia Wilbur who was later found to have coached her client, do you feel that it’s possible, as I do, that Daniel Keyes and Dr. Wilbur were so caught up in the excitement of examining a rare, and of course publishable, case that they just believed Billy implicitly despite the possiblity that maybe he’s just a kid from an abusive home who watched 3 Faces of Eve on tv as a kid and was like “hey, I’m gonna do that one day.”

L: Well, I love Debbie Nathan’s book Sybil Exposed and I think her analysis was just brilliant. And, you know, I don’t know the full story of the motivations and so on and I think that was an iatrogenically created case of a multiple.

PF: With Sybil or also in the case of Milligan?

L: I don’t know about Milligan.

PF: We know Sybil but… Eve…

L: What’s that about Eve? I actually met her. We were actually at a conference in London.

PF: Do you believe her case was legitimate?

L: No, not particularly. These people have the symptoms, the question is how did they get that way?

PF: Do you think most cases of DID are iatrogenic?

L: I don’t want to venture there.

PF: Now course the, another question I wanted to get on to is what is your opinion on Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk’s research?

L: Well he’s a huge promoter of this idea of trauma therapy that there was no evidence for. He was frequently expert testimony on opposing sides of court cases.

PF: Right yeah.

L: And I don’t think there’s any good evidence that the body keeps the score. [The Body Keeps The Score is the title of a best selling book by Dr. Van Der Kolk]

PF: Ah, haha.

L: He’s gotten a lot of mileage out of that meme.

PF: Oh my gosh, wow. Umm, ok, ok, umm, now let’s see, you’ve said, I’m getting ahead of myself here, mentioning Richard McNally, in the Forbes article I was reading it was mentioning Dr. Van Der Kolk and Richard McNally vs Daniel Brown, yourself vs Crook and Dean, Pope vs Kihlstrom and a handful of major players… have the memory wars ended?

L: No.

PF: No?

L: You should look at a paper that’s linked on my UC Irvine website, which is called “Are the Memory Wars Over” published just a few years ago, an extensive survey of professionals and you’ll see there’s still massive controversy over memory scientists and clinical research academics like McNally tend not to believe in it but certain mental health groups still do and that paper lays out the gap and the controversy that still exists.

PF: Right, ok. Now, another question I have is related to, you know, I mentioned the Crook and Dean paper in Ethics and Behavior and I read your rebuttal as well. Now, in the mall study you said the subjects were asked to read what their relatives have told us about each event. Now how does this apply to what a therapist might tell a client and can we generalize from that or is this another case like Vietnam vets vs child abuse… [One of the issues brought up with the mall study in Ethics and Behavior is the fact that therapists could not claim to be present at the time of an event in the client’s past. The mall study to date is only effective in, at best, less than 1/4-1/3 of cases even with trusted family members claiming said event occurred.]

L: That was a study to show that you could plant an entire memory into the mind of an adult about a childhood event that would have been at least mildly traumatic. Since that time all many other investigators have planted all kinds of whole events in the minds of people.

PF: So that was before the formalized model of study, ok.

L: Yeah, that just happened to be the first one. And you know, of course, it used a strong form of suggestion but many other studies have shown that even milder forms of suggestion can lead people to false memories like guided imagination or dream interpretation or some of the other methods that some therapists were using.

PF: I take it you’re an anti-Jungian.

L: I don’t know much about Jung.

PF: I’m not gonna lie, I was interested in, you mentioned folklore earlier, I am a huge fan of folklore and mythology, I love Bettelheim, I really enjoyed Jung’s book on alchemy and some of that may verge on pseudoscience, but I still find it really fascinating.

L: Ok.

PF: But I’m getting off topic again here, I do apologize.

Ok, regarding the Crook and Dean case again, she lodged an ethics complaint saying you misrepresented her lawsuit to the media and then you resigned from the APA. Now was this incidental, were you pressured or was it completely unrelated? [Jennifer Hoult also filed an ethics complaint against Loftus in 1995 for misrepresenting her successful lawsuit in The Skeptical Inquirer]

L: Well first of all, what she… I made a couple of remarks to a journalist about a case that I worked on and she recognized herself in one detail in the case. She sued…

PF: Wait, is she Jane Doe? [Loftus’ Jane Doe case study with Melvin Guyer resulted in the Taus v. Loftus lawsuit which was settled in Taus’ favor]

L: No this is not Jane Doe.

PF: Ok, because I know there was a big deal about a Jane Doe and…

L: That’s different. That came later.

PF: Ok sorry for the confusion and thank you for setting me straight. Speaking of the Jane Doe case, can you tell me a little about that because initially she was working with you… I’m so sorry, please finish.

L: So anyhow. She complained about an anonymous reference I made.

PF: Ok.

L: To a journalist who was writing an article for Psychology Today magazine and she, and that started this long, obsession that she developed about me where she just, you know, uh, just emerged over and over to the point where I felt like I was being stalked. [Crook learned from Loftus’ deposition that Loftus dropped the first 6 mall study subjects which was the impetus for her academic rebuttal of the study from an ethical standpoint. Apart from a few scholarly papers that take issue with ethical and other issues with Loftus’ research there is no evidence of “stalking.”]

L: Ah, so you feel she’s held a grudge since that initial lawsuit.

PF: Oh absolutely.

L: She claims she filed an ethical complaint but APA never confirmed or denied it and I resigned from APA at about that same time but it had nothing to do with her complaint. [This claim is disputed in the Hoffman Report, claiming that Loftus was given forewarning by the APA]

PF: Wow, I did not know that about the, so there’s no corroboration to your knowledge of an actual ethics complaint being lodged.

L: Exactly.

PF: I can’t even remember where I read that, I will have to check. My notes are all out of whack right now. This is week two of research so I haven’t even begun to put things in stacks yet. Ok, now, so in an email you referred to her as “dangerous and deceptive” do you feel that there’s genuine malice in her crusade against you.

L: Oh heck yeah, I do.

PF: Yeah? So it’s personal in your opinion.

L: Yeah.

PF: Ok. Now um, are you familiar with Professor Ross Cheit at Brown University who wrote the book The Witch Hunt Narrative.

L: He pronounces it CHITE

PF: Cheit! Oh my gosh, Oh the curse of the autodidact I can never pronounce anything right. Now have you read the Witch Hunt Narrative and what do you think?

L: Uh, I just think it’s an exaggeration but its mostly about the child cases where the kids are still kids. You should talk to Steve Ceci and Maggy Bruck because they are the main target of his attack in that book.

PF: And how do you spell Ceci?

L: C E C I , he’s at Cornell.

PF: And Maggy Bruck. Thank you so much.

L: Steve Ceci.

PF: Now when I was reading that book, I will give him great credit that, to his credit he points out a lot of the issues with the interviews. A lot of those interviews they were absolutely like the children were led, but at the same time I do somewhat agree that once this idea that “oh well the children are being led” do you think it’s possible that that led to some child abuse victims who were legitimate not being believed once that idea had been popularized?

L: I don’t know, I think Debbie Nathan would be another good person for you to talk to if you can about because she covered those kinds of cases so thoroughly. She’s written extensively.

PF: Well I emailed her and she gave me full permission to quote but basically said as far as the memory wars project that wasn’t her forte.

L: She didn’t want to talk about it. She’s busy I guess.

PF: Now, let’s see, here’s a two parter and this one’s a little more hardball. Now there were some ethical issues that have been lodged against some of the scientists who were involved in the false memory syndrome foundation. I’m talking about Dr. Louis West particularly and some others who were involved in the CIA’s MK-Ultra. Now to invoke the trolley dilemma thought experiment, do the ends justify the means if the suffering of a single person or a small group of people result in the amelioration of the pain of millions. That’s more of an ethics question but…

L: Yeah, well that’s an ethical question, I’m a memory person. People are going to resolve that depending on their, you know, morality and ethical feelings but I don’t want to venture outside of my expertise.

PF: Ok that’s fine, now were you aware of MK Ultra and their research at the time you were on the board with them.

L: I, I think that… I did read this bizarre speech by Cory Hammond, but I don’t know about that. That’s not anything I ever was involved in.

PF: I stick to stuff like the Church Committee hearings, uh, (laughing) a lot more, I think Cory Hammond, that’s the guy who I’ve read some of his stuff too, something about different colors and beta kitten mind control slaves and mk monarch programming and I’ve read the FOIA documents ok, I’ve got no doubt that MK Ultra exists. You know Bill Clinton apologized for the Canadian experiments that Dr. Cameron did but a lot of what Hammond spoke about there’s zero evidence for most of his claims so yeah. Now and here’s another tough one, I’m sure you weren’t aware at the time, but what are your thoughts on the Ralph Underwager Paidika scandal where he made that regrettable quote regarding pedophilia and are…

L: I don’t… I, I, he made some regrettable quote, but I didn’t really follow it that closely.

PF: It, it was like, you talk about Hammond it was equally, equally, nuts “I believe it is God’s will that there be closeness and intimacy and unity of flesh beyond people and pedophiles can… (Loftus: over the quote: “yeah he probably regretted saying that). You know what blows my mind is that, you know, the foundation said denounce what you say, say you were wrong and he refused to he said there’s no scientific evidence to bear that child abuse is harmful and so he was asked to step down. Do you think that his involvement could have cast any kind of a pall on the organization and its work?

L: I don’t have an opinion about that, but the board or whoever decided it would be better that he not be in a prominent position for them to be able to achieve the goals and mission then that’s their decision.

PF: And yes, definitely, it would have been a PR nightmare to keep him on after that. Umm, now uh, Dr. Martin Orne, he uh, very much to be commended exposed serial killer Kenneth Bianchi, who was also malingering attempting to use DID as a defense for unspeakable crimes. Do you know anything about his, one of his mentors he cites, Dr. G.H. Estabrooks. [Estabrooks wanted to induce alter personalities via trauma in order for the purposes of espionage, his work was influential to MK-Ultra]

L: No.

PF: Yeah, ok, never mind then. I was going to see if you knew anything about that. Estabrooks actually was charged with the military to attempt to use trauma to create alternate personalities as for whether that went anywhere there’s no, uh, there’s no way of knowing. And now what would you say to people like Mike Stanton who claimed in the Columbia Journalism Review that the False Memory Syndrome Foundation was a “PR machine?” What’s your rebuttal to that?

L: (pause for a few seconds) Well, I don’t even know what that means. It was a group of people who were very concerned with a problem in society that they were seeing and they sought to try to do something about it.

PF: I think his, the gist was, the effectiveness in marshalling both the media, and the courts and in some cases didn’t some of the work that the foundation do influence not only the number of litigations against parents but once therapists started getting sued changed the way what you referred to as “recovered memory therapy” was done. I guess in a way you could definitely say that the foundation was a lobby even though it was probably more of a think tank.

L: I don’t know, you, I mean it it’s people who, uh, I mean, would you say that people who, who… are concerned um, uh about pancreatic cancer and form a foundation to try to deal with it, and support research and educate people that they’re a lobby?

PF: Uh, yeah. I personally would…

L: Well maybe you have a broad definition of lobby that has a kind of connotation about it…

PF: Ah, I understand, I understand, maybe lobby is the wrong word.

L: That’s why I, I, just would not like to use that word. A group of people, of families who were devastated and professionals who were concerned on their behalf to come together to try to work on a societal problem.

PF: Well that’s a great answer. What are your thoughts on, I call it the strange bedfellows effect. The odd alliances that sprung up. Who ever would have guessed that Gloria Steinem and Pat Robertson would be working side by side uh, during the satanic panic era to discredit FSMF

L: …to promote satanic ritual abuse and put it on the cover of Ms. Magazine but that was an unpleasant moment in this whole, you know, saga.

PF: Ok, and uh, now you have represented some incredibly controversial figures. Ted Bundy, Jerry Sandusky, Harvey Weinstein… would you say that your work on the defense was it more in the service of science rather than simply to defend these people or did you honestly believe that they might be innocent.

L: Well first of all Ted Bundy, he was accused of aggravated kidnapping in 1976 no one knew even who Ted Bundy was then. All he was was a first year law student at the university of Utah law school who was accused of trying to kidnap a woman out of a shopping mall parking lot in broad daylight.

PF: And a member of the Young Republicans of course.

L: I didn’t know he was.

PF: No he was a member of the Young Republicans specifically.

L: And there were issues about that identification, was made like 9 months later under some questionable circumstances and I talked about, you know, eyewitness identification and what we know about it.

PF: So you didn’t necessarily feel that they were innocent uhhhh…

L: Oh no, I don’t decide somebody’s is innocent or guilty.

PF: Right and in America that’s how things work everyone has a right to the best defense possible.

L: Well we are innocent until proven guilty under this wonderful system of ours and even very unpopular people have right to a defense.

PF: Yes, yes, that’s the rule of law and when we break down the rule of law because x,y,z group are unpopular then that’s a very dangerous slippery slope I would definitely personally agree.

L: Exactly.

PF: Now speaking of controversial figures, were you at all acquainted with the Eberles who also were involved in the foundation.

L: I don’t even remember them being involved in the foundation. Weren’t they… They wrote a book about…

PF: The Politics of Child Abuse yeah.

L: I don’t remember them being on the advisory board.

PF: Oh no no no, I don’t believe they were on the scientific advisory board at all and in fact may have been more like Debbie Nathan where they extensively used quotes and attended some of their meetings and, organizational meetings and things…

L: I don’t know that I ever met them.

PF: Ok, I was going to ask if you thought they were being railroaded by the LAPD who apparently…

L: Oh no, I don’t know anything about that.

PF: This is something I kind of went over already. Dr. Pamela Freyd on PBS, I think it was Frontline, said part of the reason for the foundation was because everyone has a right to defend himself or herself and have those accusations examined. And I will happily concede that there are certainly multiple cases where with the aid of hypnosis or other you’ve mentioned that memories can be implanted. Do you feel there could be a conflict of interest though, considering that some of the scientists, Dr. West was working with MK Ultra, one of their objectives was learning how to implant memories, do you think there was any possible conflict of interest.

L: I, I… (pause) I, uh, the scientific and professional advisory board, a number of people who have different, completely different expertise that they bring to (clears throat) thinking about this problem.

PF: Did you know Dr. West personally?

L: I don’t, I’m not sure if ever met him.

PF: I find him an incredibly fascinating figure. I can’t agree with all he did. I appreciate his work against Scientology, some of the things that are on the record in the Church Committee hearings are unconscionable of course, but I still uh, as far as science for science’s sake, I don’t believe he was an evil person per se, I do find him incredibly fascinating. Now in an interview a couple years ago, Dr. Pamela Freyd was asked if she thought that the foundation had achieved its goals and she said something along the lines of how the, she thought that it had basically done its work and they could quote slowly disappear. Do you agree with Dr. Freyd there? Is the work done?

L: I wish they were still around because they were a fantastic resource for these desperate, grieving family members and they helped so many people giving them advice, directing them to good therapists or directing them to good lawyers or directing them to other family members who could give them comfort and understanding. So there’s a gap because there’s still people who need those resources and the foundation isn’t there to provide it anymore. Except for the website that they maintain. Especially the archive of its newsletters which I think would be very handy for you.

PF: Oh yes, thanks so much and by the way, thanks for so many extra leads. So, it’s the fact that the Freyds are no longer available to lead the organization that you attribute its closing last December then?

L: I think they’re retired now and somebody’s got to want to put the time and ,yaknow, energy to keep it going. And this is the solution after however many decades.

PF: Ok, awesome. Now…

L: Twenty five years or whatever.

PF: 27, yeah.

L: Oh, 27.

PF: Have you seen, I’ve been reading, I’ve been interested in the memory wars situation for years and in the past few weeks I’ve been kind of intensively into research and I’ve been trying to be as objective as possible and looking into both sides and getting as much information from both camps. And I watched Mary Knight’s documentary that actually featured an interview with you. Did you see that interview?

L: That was awful.

PF: Oh no, yeah? So you were not a fan of the documentary.

L: No it was sort of ridiculous, I don’t know why she had this camera on me with this side view the whole time, and uh it was very, I felt very sort of misled. And sorry I cooperated.

PF: Do you feel you were misrepresented?

L: No, just misled. I don’t know. I thought she would be more open minded.

PF: So there wasn’t any selective editing or anything like that.

L: Well probably, it was completely edited.

PF: Well of course, but ok, what I meant was edited to cut out anything specifically to make you look good and her look bad.

L: I well, anyhow, it’s been a while since I saw it so I don’t remember it and its certainly a very long time since I talked to her so I can’t tell you what was cut out and whatever but it certainly was not the whole interview.

PF: Another person who was in the interview that, by the way, you were able to keep your cool and calm unlike Eleanor Goldstein. Oh my goodness. She seemed to blow up in the interview a bit. What are your thoughts on Goldstein and her books on false memory syndrome.

L: I understand that Goldstein was, you know, one of those devastated family members and if they have a kind of anger about what happens in their family you almost can’t blame them.

PF: I get that, I just can’t gibe with, the one quote she made, that it’s even in the trailer, it gave me goosebumps when she basically said sexual touch in regards to children is not the horror of horrors that it’s made to be and children need to be responsible at some point which smacks of victim blaming to me. I can understand being upset if she was falsely accused, I know her daughter says she was a victim of abuse, so I can understand the anger I can not however understand saying oh child abuse is not that bad, handwaving it away and saying don’t hold a grudge.

L: You’re going to have to talk to her about that whether it was a very unfortunate…

PF: That would be good to know. I tried to send her an email but couldn’t find her contact information if you have her contact info…

L: I think Pam Freyd would know how to reach her.

PF: Oh my gosh, if you could get me in touch with Dr. Freyd that would be so amazing.

L: Well when you email me, I can send you Pam Freyd’s email but we’ll have to wrap this up I have an event tonight, I budgeted an hour for this and it’s already an hour.

PF: Yes ma’am. One last question then, at this point would you consider false memory syndrome “settled science” as the popularized phrase goes.

L: Well, I don’t use the false memory syndrome, I study false memories.

PF: Aha so that’s another misrepresentation.

L: False memory syndrome is the name of an organization or its a condition that John Kihlstrom defined at some point, but I don’t think you need the expression. People can develop false memories and I know a great deal about how that happens.

PF: Well it’s been excellent speaking with you and I apologize for my nervousness and taking up so much time…

L: You know those archived newsletters will give you all kinds of ideas because as they cover people’s speeches, people’s articles and so on, for other people that you might want to interview.

PF: Thank you so much Dr. Loftus, you have an excellent rest of the day good luck in your event later and hopefully we can keep in touch.

Loftus: Ok, byebye.



6 Degrees between Ted Kaczynski and Jeffrey Epstein: Part 1

In 2003, writer and director Lutz Dammbeck released the German documentary Das Netz (released in the US as The Net: the Unabomber, LSD and the Internet. The film goes into some of the many stunning connections between the burgeoning technology of information theory, computers, cybernetics, mind control, the counterculture… and how all of that ties into the story of Ted Kaczynski.

In this series, we will be exploring the “six degrees of Jeffrey Epstein” that connects the disgraced pedophile, trafficker and financier to Kaczynski by way of some of the primary figures in the creation of Silicon Valley as well as the creation of the counterculture in the 1960s and beyond.

Kaczynski, as the documentary points out, was convicted of mailing bombs to universities, scientists and airports over a period of decades. In fact, Unabomber, is actually a law enforcement designated shortening of “University and Airport Bomber.” One incredibly interesting thing about the documentary that was pointed out by David Livingstone, author of Transhumanism: History of a dangerous idea is the connection between the network that Kaczynski is alleged to have attacked and Jeffrey Epstein.

“Bear in mind that Epstein was funding a lot of science long before he had a (deservedly!) bad reputation to launder. It was a prior genuine interest.” Brand, (who had been seen with “Epstein’s girls” in photos multiple times) tried to claim.

Not everyone was buying Brand’s “smokescreen” story of how and why Epstein was able to go on for so long. Someone shares a photo of Brand with two young girls purported to have been flown in on Epstein’s “Lolita Airlines.” Brand is flanked by what appears to be two teenage girls. Not just Brand but other figures tied to this same current both in science and literature, such as Marshall McLuhan, cyberneticist Gregory Bateson and others.

Dammbeck also reaches out to John Brockman himself, an important figure in the intersection of the underground worlds of both the hard science of computers and the arts. Brockman would bridge many worlds, that of Brand and his Whole Earth Catalog hippies as well as that of what would become the geek masters of the universe of Silicon Valley.

Brockman was involved in “happenings” such as those put on by Andy Warhol that resulted in the Velvet Underground. He was like a connective tissue between various subcultures spending time with scientists as well as the likes of experimental music superstar John Cage.

When multimedia art became popular he found his role as the marketer of the “digerati” quite stimulating and profitable. Considering his closeness to Edge.org the Epstein funded science publication, maybe a little too stimulating… But what does all this have to do with the Kaczynski?

Dammbeck points out that it seems that the Unabomber’s stated victims are often connected to what he terms the “Brockman network.” Of course there are the likes of Kirby Sommers, who makes unsubstantiated claims about Epstein such as his supposedly being tutored by Kaczynski at one point. Despite a minefield of disinformation, there are some rather compelling links between these various circles, this network/net, Dammbeck explores in his documentary.

Brockman in his floppy hat and crumpled overcoat looks like some self styled Indiana Jones type. His “Expanded Cinema Festival” was highly important to the rise of multimedia art that would inspire some of the zine and mail art of the 70s and “video art” of the 80s and 90s. The confluence of forces that he managed to wield and market made him an indelible fixture on multiple scenes. It was John Cage who would hand Norbert Weiner’s Cybernetics book over to Brockman, in fact.

One aim of the multimedia philosophy was “rearranging the senses” which sounds similar to the aim of Rimbaud, using drugs, alcohol and decadence to “derange the senses” to create a reality that corresponds to one’s desires and will. Brockman friend and client Stewart Brand would be tied to Ken Kesey, the “acid tests.” He also coined the term “personal computer.” LSD guru and CIA asset Dr. Timothy Leary would also heavily push the computer current in the 80s and 90s around the same time that Apple’s Steve Jobs was experimenting with psychedelics.

Brand would also be responsible for the first ever alternative computer network, separate from the military network the Arpanet, centered around nodes at various universities long known to have worked with the military-industrial complex and intelligence. “The Well” it was called. This was a time of great techno-optimism that lasted on into the early 2000s carried along by the likes of Douglas Rushkoff.

Brand, like Kesey, had military ties. He had been a Lieutenant in the US army, stationed at Ft. Dix, New Jersey. On the weekends he would head to the lower east side of New York where he spent time hanging out with artists around 1959-1960. This would eventually lead to Brockman’s involvement in USCO (US Company, a group of artists and engineers, foreshadowing the role Brand would have tying these seemingly unrelated worlds together).

An apparent coincidence or seeming synchronicity led to Brand becoming involved with Kesey and the Merry Pranksters. Brand had been taking photographs at the same reservation that the chief from One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest was supposedly from. This, according to the tale told by Brand, is how he ended up with an in to meet Kesey via a mutual friend.

Next thing you know, Brand would be on the bus, Furthur, the iconic Merry Pranksters van was driven by arch-Beatnik Neal Cassady. The house band for the Pranksters’ “acid tests” were a little group called The Warlocks. They would later become famous as the Grateful Dead.

And that’s just the tip of the iceberg as far as the many weird and varied connections in this web of intrigue involving the world wide web, security state authoritarian tech, the rise of Silicon Valley and the Unabomber.

Stay tuned for part II.

B.Z. Listening Podcast Part I: Pedogate Primer Interview

I talked with indie journalist B.Z. Douglas recently for a two part interview. In part one we talk about my book Pedogate Primer: the politics of pedophilia which can be purchased at major booksellers such as Amazon, Walmart, Target, Barnes & Noble, Books-a-Million and a handful of shops (multiple in some countries) in Australia, Norway, UK, Poland, Holland, Sweden, United Arab Emirates, Kuwait, Taiwan and elsewhere. I personally recommend supporting independent booksellers like Powell’s, Skylight Books or Trident’s Book Cafe. if you plan to buy it. As always if you can’t afford a copy, drop me a line at kafkaguy at gmail.com or via the contact form (if you don’t get an answer through the contact form try again with the email to be safe).

We had initially met through a mutual on Twitter who knew we were both dealing with harassment from lawyers with very vague and toothless threats trying to get us to pull factual reporting.

Right down to “false memory syndrome,” real estate fraud, corrupt officers of the court, prosecutorial misconduct, conflicts of interest and other points from each of our stories kept lining up as we became acquainted on a zoom call that morphed into the idea to collaborate on the upcoming Walking the Wire podcast. Speaking of, we have been doing aftershows via Streamyard and Twitter Spaces, our second was recently released online and can be found here.



I’ll be doing a Q/A session for B.Z.’s patreon supporters, Patreon supporters are also eligible for a free digital copy of my book as well (as always reviews always appreciated as they really help). You can also watch the above video at the B.Z. Douglas YouTube channel.

We’ll also continue doing “aftershows” at the @walkingwirepod account to discuss more about our cases as they relate to The Wire via Streamyard and Twitter spaces. Call in guests are welcome, you can see our second aftershow (first recorded) below.

Look for part 2 of this interview in a couple days. This Friday at 9pm EST B.Z. will be hosting me for a livestream Q&A.

If you’re a Patreon supporter, a PDF copy of my book is available for you at https://www.patreon.com/bzdouglas

FOOTNOTES:

From the Archives: Dr. Louis “Jolly” West Docs On Possession, Dissociation & Alien Abduction

CIA MK-Ultra researcher Dr. Louis Jolyon West, known to some as “Dr. Jolly” was one of the foremost figures studying mind control. Today I am going through some of the most recent documents I’ve had released from the UCLA special collections. Huge thanks to William Ramsey of William Ramsey Investigates who used alumni status to help me get some of these files released sooner.

Background music “John Carpenter style synth mix” courtesy of White Bat Audio, royalty free music.

Currently working on the Kai the Hitchhiker book and after that will get back to the “6 degrees from Ted Kaczynski to Epstein” book but I will continue to collect as much of the LJW special collections and hopefully in a couple years will be ready to start working on the first definitive biography of one of the leading CIA MK-Ultra researchers.

Do the Forced Labor Bop: a previously published underground film review

This article was originally published in the apparently defunct, waywordwell website. Some correspondence between myself and Sara Weis and Arturo Cubacub the filmmaker artists behind the film seemed to have been in the works to be published at the also now defunct GetUnderground webzine. I will be republishing the waywordwell article today. I also just today learn that Arturo died December of 2018. He was an amazing artist and innovator who took the time to correspond me in great deal. As I said, I had planned to publish some quotes and snippets from correspondence and an editor was on track to do so but said magazine no longer exists so I will be reprinting here at some time once I’ve had time to process Arturo’s death. A man who I spent maybe an hour with on the phone and just a couple dozen or more pages of correspondence but just his taking his time and taking me seriously made quite a difference at that time. He will be missed and the art world suffers with his loss.

Do the forced labor bop

Philip Fairbanks

It started as a harmless Youtube search. Because I can’t get enough of my fix of Japanese bossa nova, I decided to do a search for Shibuya-kei, a Japanese musical movement epitomized by bands like Flipper’s Guitar, Pizzicato 5 and Fantastic Plastic Machine. I see this clip for a “mini-epic,” entitled B-17. It’s a trailer for a short film inspired by Shibuya-kei and manga. This, I thought, has got to be dreadfully awesome, or painfully terrible.

Turns out it was dreadful, painful and terrible. Most of all, though, it was awesome. It’s the story of Silly White Girl AKA Sarah Weis, who spends her days making pro-war polo shirts and being a sex slave locked in a sub-sub-sub-basement of the White House. Major Orwellian overtones and black comedy in the vein of Brautigan and Vonnegut combine with disturbing scenes of the life of a girl who wakes up to find herself trapped and under constant surveillance in a dungeon/pleasure den.

It’s kind of a musical, in that there are two scenes that are as much music video montage and story and the soundtrack, performed on moog and theremin, was written and performed by Sarah Weis and Arturo Cubacub.

Arturo films and directs the piece based on a performance piece by Sarah. Arturo, internationally acclaimed for his award winning films, directs the piece which is based on 19 year old Sarah’s performance piece.

I would give a synopsis, but according to Sarah and Arturo, the air of mystery is too important. Suffice it to say, in all but the last scene, Sarah is the only human actor. Other parts are played by, according to the credits the Man(nequin). The film is disturbing, disorienting and makes me want to join Amnesty International. It’s humorous in a very dark way, but after reading news about detainees being stripped of dignity and tortured, I can’t laugh too hard. The film conceptualizes the madness of post-9/11 America. It envisions a world where no one is safe from our protectors who already have the right to surveillance, phone taps and other civil rights breaches.

The entire film is available on Youtube.com and can be found at http://www.youtube.com/bseventeen. Check out the trailers and start at episode one if you want it to make any sense. Don’t miss chapters like “The brand of the free,” or “I heart the war on terrorism.” I contacted the creators and gave them my impression. I said they made John Waters and David Lynch look like Walt Disney and Norman Rockwell. Arturo jokingly replied that their aim was to “make Walt Disney and Norman Rockwell look like Joseph Thorak and Leni Riefenstahl.” Copies of the dvd are for sale at http://b-seventeen.com.

FBI Fingerprints On Martin Luther King Jr. Assassination

For Martin Luther King Jr. Day, Covert Action Magazine, home to some of the best national security state reporting there is, has published a mammoth piece, “Did J. Edgar Hoover Order the Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr?” Despite the supposed rule about headlines making bold claims, this lengthy piece actually brings the goods. It got me to thinking about some of the recent news related to Sirhan Sirhan, where a steady trickle of new JFK assassination documents continue to slowly leak to the public the last few years. As well as some of the strange events surrounding news related to Malcolm X’s assassination, a cover-up or conspiracy involving, among others, NYPD and the FBI.

Just as in the case of RFK, JFK and Malcolm X, the MLK case begins to project a shadow of a doubt at the least upon closer inspection. Once some of the details that weren’t available until the last decade come changes everything we thought we knew about the story.

In 2012, for instance, G. Robert Blakey, staff director to the House Senate Committee on Assassinations, said he had been lied to by the CIA. They never revealed the CIA background of George Joannides. Blakey told the Clarion-Ledger in Jacksonville, Mississippi, that “thoughtful people today, not just nuts, think that more people than James Earl Ray were involved [in King’s killing].”

In addition to that, in 1999, a mixed-race jury came to a unanimous verdict. Martin Luther King Jr. they ruled, was assassinated in a conspiracy involving the U.S. government. King’s widow, Coretta Scott King made it clear how she felt, saying “there is abundant evidence of a major, high-level conspiracy in the assassination of my husband.” The jury found that the mafia and various local, state, and federal government agencies were involvement. They also found involvement of organized crime, local, state and federal government “were deeply involved in the assassination…. Mr. Ray was set up to take the blame.” If this sounds a little crazy you likely aren’t aware of, for instance, the FBI’s plans to pit the mafia against Communist Party USA (CPUSA).

That time the FBI tried to get the Mob to attack CPUSA pic.twitter.com/tuVuHgi9hf— Robert Skvarla (@RobertSkvarla) January 16, 2022

Ray, the likely patsy, already had some shady government ties similar to Oswald’s connection to Bannister, Ferrie and company’s Services Unlimited front. Once he was sentenced, Ray fired his lawyer (who also had ties to the mob). Percy Foreman, he claimed, ahd pressured him into pleading guilty. Then there’s the conflict of interest, Foreman had 60% royalty rights on a book about Ray by William Bradford Hule, but who would have bought a book about James Earl Ray the exonerated patsy. Especially in comparison to James Early Ray “the man who shot MLK.”

Similar to the cases of JFK and RFK, there is forensic evidence that calls Ray’s involvement into question, from lack of fingerprints to not being able to match the bullet to the rifle that Ray allegedly left on the steps of the Canipe Amusement Company. A decoy Mustang in the area, Add to that the fact that the “star witness,” Charles Quitman Stephens, had been arrested 155 times related to alcohol abuse and was quite sauced when the shooting occurred.

John Larry Ray said at the time of the shooting his brother was waiting in his Mustang, not the decoy’s, for his handler, Raoul. Raoul, was allegedly Ray’s Cuban handler drug trafficking, not unlike many of the characters who come up again and again when looking at the Kennedy assassinations Cubans . Not just Ray’s family though, the King family also believed Ray was framed.

Similarly more and more evidence has come to light regarding FBI involvement in the assassinations of Malcolm X and Fred Hampton as well. Just months ago, Malcolm X’s daughter, Malikah Shabazz, was “found dead” in her home. I found the timing instantly suspect considering earlier that year there was a supposed letter from a police officer confessing to being part of a conspiracy to kill Malcolm X that the NYPD claimed was fake.

Yes, the same NYPD that was complicit in covering up Harvey Weinstein and Jeffrey Epstein’s crimes. And it was that same NYPD who instantly commented that there was nothing suspect about Shabazz being found dead days after the FBI finally admitted their involvement in the X assassination leading to two men who had been held for decades in prison being freed. A few weeks later, the medical examiner would echo what the police had speculated initially. That it was “a natural death of undetermined cause and there is no suspicion of foul play.”

Busta Rhymes and T.I. shared a screenshot from a fake news story about a supposed ex-CIA agent “Bill Oxley” confessing on his deathbed to the assassination of Bob Marley. No record of any Bill Oxley working for the CIA. He is listed as either 76 or 79 at time of death. No hospital records or even a photograph, the picture on the site being a simple stock photo.

Regardless of lack of a smoking gun revealing CIA fingerprint in Marley’s death, there is a good deal of information in John Potash’s The FBI War on Tupac Shakur: state repression of black leaders from the Civil Rights Era to the 1990s. That coupled with more information appearing bit by bit about multiple civil rights leaders being targeted by a conspiracy comprised of feds, local law enforcement and, often, organized crime elements such as the mafia, KKK or motorcycle gangs like the Hell’s Angels.

Ray definitely had to have some help in order to not only have money to live on but enough to afford fake identities, a new face care of plastic surgery and classes from bartending and dance to hypnosis. His motive was said to be pure racist hatred, but friends say that doesn’t square with the man they knew who was no stranger to interracial relationships between black and white himself. They also claimed the “evidence” proving he was a racist was planted by police. Add to that the fact that, like the patsy Oswald, Ray just wasn’t a very great shot as evidenced by their military records. Ray had even been recruited into Wild Bill Donovan’s Office of Strategic Services, the precursor to the CIA. Even the base he served at in Frankfurt was, oddly enough, housed in an I.G. Farben building that was somehow spared the Allied bombing.

Add to that lumbar punctures by Army doctors allowing for parenteral drug administration, his claims that he was strongly affected by an incident involving him shooting a Black soldier accused of beating up Jews and raping an officer’s family member. This turned out to be untrue.

Covert Action Magazine points out that mysterious gaps in Ray’s military record also make it seem like he could potentially be an MK-Ultra candidate. Both the Army and the CIA began experimenting with LSD and various other powerful drugs, hypnosis and other methods of “mind control” or behavior modification in the early 1950s.

In addition to that, FBI documents prove that Ray didn’t just take hypnosis classes, he saw a couple hypnotists himself in L.A. just after his Army stint had ended. One, Xavier von Koss, wonder of wonders was an Army intelligence officer who was a possible Operation Paperclip ringer. Yes, that’s right, if you weren’t aware, the CIA helped Nazis escape justice at Nuremberg and then recruited them in our space program, in intelligence and pretty much doing most of what they were already doing under Hitler, just for the USA rather than the NSDAP.

Ray was even ordered to Montreal to the Memorial Institute at McGill University to be hypnotized while in the service. This is where Dr. Ewen Cameron, responsible for depatterning and other cruel experiments Cameron engaged in caused lifetime damage in many.

There’s also Dr. Donald B. Peterson, head of psychiatry at the Army’s Far East Command during the Korean War. In case you weren’t aware, the connections between the Korean War, biowarfare and the MK-Ultra program are manifold as well. Dr. Louis Jolyon West, for instance, interviewed the pilots supposedly “brainwashed” in Korea. Peterson prescribed Ray with Librium after a failed attempt to escape from prison. Librium was listed as a compound of interested regarding deepening and strengthening the effects of narco-hypnosis (drug aided hypnosis was a major part of the early years of Project Artichoke and MK-Ultra).

When Ray escaped he was given the identity of a Canadian asset of U.S. Army intelligence, “Eric St. Vincent Galt.” Galt ran a warehouse for Union Carbide which, again, like I.G. Farben ties back to both the Nazis and the CIA. Raoul, who some speculate was actually J.C. Harden, Raoul Coelho or Raoul Esquivel, initially helped Ray flee the scene before jumping out of the car and leaving Ray to be captured.

Like Timothy McVeigh (until MK-Ultra Doc “Jolly” West cured him), he was convinced that Feds were “messing with his mind.” And his father believed him to have been drugged. So in addition to pre-CIA intelligence activities, we know Ray was working undercover for the FBI from 1949 to 1952. There was even an intelligence asset in the boarding house Ray was staying in at the time of MLK assassination.

There’s even a grassy knoll type situation. Two associates of King who were present when he was killed say the body lurched upward when he was shot, meaning the shot would have had to come from below, perhaps in the bushes rather than from above where Ray supposedly was stationed. Multiple witnesses reported seeing a man crouching in the bushes and running away after hearing a bang. One described the person as wearing a high-necked white sweater with a long gun in his hands. Another witness saw a fireman standing near the wall below the bushes yelling at the police that the shot came from the bushes, but the police ignored him.

The Kennedy coincidences don’t end there though. Jack Ruby’s Vegas Club’s phone number was found in a phone book of H.L. Hunt. Funny thing is, the number is listed as “Raul J” followed by the Dallas phone number of the club run by Jack Ruby, the man who shot Oswald. Ruby, by the way, also met with MK-Ultra doctors and believed that they were giving him “crazy pills” and strange injections before he would die of cancer. Another piece of paper had Raul’s name and a date for payment, a third had the phone number and extension for Atlanta’s FBI field office.

There’s also the fact that the Memphis Police Department just happened to have pulled off several security units which would expedite the flight of those responsible. Ed Redditt, a black detective with MPD was pulled off his post just an hour before the shooting and placed in “home confinement” after the FBI warned MPD of an assassination attempt directed against him (as it turns out, no such assassination attempt existed, but it did serve to get his eyes off the scene).

Another scare was called in another scare just before the shooting, again diverting police away from the area where King would die. Lloyd Jowers, owner of Jim’s Grill, where Ray said he met Raoul, would eventually make the claim that he was paid $100,000 by Frank Liberto via Liberto, Liberto and Latch Produce Company in Memphis to set up the hit. Liberto was a member of the Carlos Marcello crime family. Douglas Valentine in his book CIA as Organized Crime or Potash’s Drugs as Weapons Against Us give many examples of federal agencies, law enforcement and intelligence working arm in arm with organized crime on such dirty deeds as gun and drug running, assassinations and other illicit activities.

It’s well known that FBI stalked even the likes of John Lennon, but the vitriol and constant infiltration and subversion of the COINTELPRO strategy seemed especially personal with King. There was even a letter sent in 1964 alleging him to be a fraud, “a grim farce” and urging him to commit suicide. There is even verifiable COINTELPRO activity, a “memo” by G.C. Moore, chief of the “racial intelligence” division of the FBI’s Counterintelligence Program:

The fine Hotel Lorraine in Memphis is owned and patronized exclusively by Negroes but King didn’t go there after his hasty exit [from] the demonstration of March 28. Instead, King decided the plush Holiday Inn Motel, white-owned, operated and almost exclusively white patronized, was the place to “cool it.” There will be no boycott of white merchants for King, only for his followers

Add that to the many links tying the FBI and MPD and there seems to be at least enough evidence to cast more than a bit of doubt on the official narrative.

From Stargate and Scientology to Epstein: Philip Fairbanks On Skeptiko

I recorded interview with Alex Tsakiris from Skeptiko last month. We talk about a lot of topics, including some pretty personal ones. If you’re interested in occultist and rocket engineer Jack Parsons, L. Ron Hubbard, Aleister Crowley, CIA and military remote viewing then this is definitely one to check out!

We talk about cults, my own personal religious beliefs. Like many of my interviews, we start on certain topics but in my trademark style we end up going on several tangents and exploring various rabbitholes.

If you would like to hear more check out other podcasts and radio shows in the  interview section. You can get your copy of Pedogate Primer: the politcs of pedophilia for Kindle and it is free to read instantly with a Kindle Unlimited subscription. You can also pick up the paperback from Amazon, Barnes & NobleTarget and Powell’s Books and a few other shops worldwide including Australia, Taiwan and Poland. The audiobook, narrated by myself, was also released at Audible.com. If you’d like a review copy of the audiobook, contact me through the contact form or email at kafkaguy@gmail.com and I’ll send you a promo code.

Interview on Dr. Louis Jolyon West, MK-Ultra and Subtle Cultural Control

The term “mind control” or “brainwashing” conjures up scifi visions of mind controlled assassins, people in zombie states and other outlandish ideas. Much of the interest in MK-Ultra tends toward the use of psychedelics, especially LSD. The cultural control through use of the Mockingbird network of CIA assets in mainstream media, literary and art journals and elsewhere is often overlooked as part of MK-Ultra mind control.

Another issue we mention are Sirhan Sirhan, John Mark Chapman and John Hinkley as well as Dr. Louis Jolyon “Jolly” West and how he shows up everywhere from Jack Ruby to Patty Hearst to Jonestown to McVeigh and beyond. Some of what’s covered here is based on some recently received documents from the UCLA library special collections on Dr. West.

We also briefly mention my book Pedogate Primer: the politics of pedophilia which makes mention of West and Elizabeth Loftus related to the False Memory Syndrome Foundation, who I interviewed. I mention some of the new materials I’ve gone through in the interview that are somewhat interesting in light of the Ghislaine Maxwell defense using the “false memories” defense via Dr. Elizabeth Loftus

Pedogate Primer is available in paperback from Amazon, Barnes & NobleTarget and Powell’s Books and a few other shops worldwide including Australia, Taiwan and Poland. The audiobook, narrated by myself, is also for sale at Audible.com. If you’d like a review copy of the audiobook, contact me through the contact form or email at kafkaguy@gmail.com and I’ll send you a promo code. I have a few other recent appearances I’ll be posting throughout the week as well as recording another interview next week. If you would like to hear more check out other podcasts and radio shows in the  interview section.

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Philip Fairbanks Pedogate Primer Interview With Programmed To Chill

https://player.fm/series/programmed-to-chill/bonus-episode-06-the-politics-of-the-politics-of-pedophilia-feat-philip-fairbanks

I spoke with Jimmy Fallun Gong of the Programmed To Chill podcast recently. We covered several topics from the Pedogate Primer: politics of pedophilia book and also went on quite a few tangents related to some of those issues. It’s a long one, over 2 hours (and likely could have gone another hour or two time permitting), but if you have time or feel like taking it in sections the conversation is really compelling stuff.

Follow the link to check it out.

Meanwhile, I have a few other recent appearances I’ll be posting throughout the week as well as recording another interview next week. If you would like to hear more check out other podcasts and radio shows in the  interview section. You can get your copy of Pedogate Primer: the politcs of pedophilia for Kindle and it is free to read instantly with a Kindle Unlimited subscription. You can also pick up the paperback from Amazon, Barnes & NobleTarget and Powell’s Books and a few other shops worldwide including Australia, Taiwan and Poland. The audiobook, narrated by myself, was also just released at Audible.com. If you’d like a review copy of the audiobook, contact me through the contact form or email at kafkaguy@gmail.com and I’ll send you a promo code.

Pedogate Primer Interview for Resistance Recovery

The latest promotional interview for Pedogate Primer: the politics of pedophilia was just released. I spoke with Piers Kaniuka, a podcast host and addiction recovery counselor this weekend about several topics from the book and we also ended up chatting about several other topics related to everything from Iran-Contra to the Opium Wars to CIA meddling with counterculture movements from abstract expressionism to the hippie music scene.
Piers has spoken to some amazing guests including one of my favorite researchers Douglas Valentine author of CIA As Organized Crime, Hotel Tacloban and The Phoenix Project, definitely check out his site Resistance Recovery for more of his excellent interviews. The audio only version should be available at Audible and several podcast repository sites in the next few days.

Our recorded conversation goes on for an hour and a half then we spent another 45 minutes or so just chatting after the show ended. Definitely looking forward to doing the show again when my next book comes out. Speaking of, I hint at what I’m working on next in the interview. Due to the spinal injury in January that I just had surgery to fix, I ended up having to put all the projects I was in the midst of on hold but hope to have the next book ready to edit early 2022 and fingers crossed will be ready to publish by Spring of next year.

If you would like to hear more check out other podcasts and radio shows in the  interview section. You can get your copy of Pedogate Primer: the politcs of pedophilia for Kindle and it is free to read instantly with a Kindle Unlimited subscription. You can also pick up the paperback from Amazon, Barnes & NobleTarget and Powell’s Books and a few other shops worldwide including Australia, Taiwan and Poland. The audiobook, narrated by myself, was also just released at Audible.com. If you’d like a review copy of the audiobook, contact me through the contact form or email at kafkaguy@gmail.com and I’ll send you a promo code.